By John Vidiadakis
Terry, let's go back some, maybe many, years. How did the band get formed back then? Did any member have any serious involvement in other groups of the time?

I met Kim Harris who owned a record store and was shopping Queensryche
to the labels in 1983.  He asked me to record a solo guitar album for release
on 206 records.  I didn't think I was good enough for a solo record, so I
told him I'd prefer to start a band.  I'd rather be in a group of great
musicians than play "star" on a solo record.
Having Kim's support was a great motivation, so I rented a house with a
basement that I could build a rehearsal room in.  I already owned a P.A.,
being a soundman for the local bands was my job at the time.  That kept me in
contact with all the best players around, and from there I set out to try and
interest players to join me in this project.  I had already written The
Servant, Dragons' Lair, and Keeper of the Reign by September of 1983 when the
first full band began under the name "SAPIEN".
Jim Kovach played drums, a percussion major at the University of
Washington; Derek was on bass just to help out, he was playing with "HELM'S
DEEP" and "PERRENIAL" at the time.  I sang and played guitar.  We recorded a
five song tape for Kim Harris to submit to EMI as a primer, I never intended
on being the vocalist on a permanent basis.
By November of 1983 I was able to recruit Cory Rivers, vocalist from
Helm's Deep, to join the project.  During these next 3 months was when the
majority of the material for "Graceful Inheritance" was written.   We called
ourselves "NEMESIS" at the time.
The heavy metal musicians in the Seattle area were very close-knit.  Cory
had been the guitarist in "BABYLON" with Geoff Tate, Geoff played with "MYTH"
as his main band, the sessions with "The MOB" that would later become
Queensryche was just a passing project for him, until they were signed.
Everyone was kind of playing musical chairs to try and find the
pot-of-gold at the end of the rainbow.  I was more interested in finding members who would commit themselves to one project.
By February of 1984, Cory left the band to pursue his business career, he
is now the Vice President of MACKIE Corporation.  I then set out to locate
Paul Davidson, whom I had known and played with in a cover tune band called
"RENEGADE" in 1981-82.  I found him living in a rehearsal warehouse, broke
and with a cocaine habit.  I moved him into my house and helped him
straighten out his life.  We rerecorded all the songs on my 4-track
reel-to-reel, and looked forward to the plans Kim Harris had for us later that summer.  This is when I named the group "HEIR APPARENT".
       Kim was going to invest $20,000 for the record (the same amount he'd spent on "The MOB" E.P.)  and we were booked into Triad Studios on July 1, 1984.
At the last moment, Kim Harris backed out of everything. Queensryche wanted
his full attention.  I borrowed $3000 from my parents, and we cut the album
back to a 5-song demo.  I sent the demo all over the world and waited for a
response.  We began getting some limited radio play of "Keeper..." and "Tear
Down the Walls" in Seattle, but when Kim Harris backed out it was quite a
disappointment.  Jim Kovach left the band in August of 1984.  Now I needed a
new drummer...
We auditioned several drummers and in the end it came down to two: Matt
Bazemore, who had also played in Babylon (and is the artist of The Warning
album cover); and Ray Schwartz, who won the job and changed his name to Black
for "image".  So, there it is, aside from the fact that Derek was still
playing with Perrenial to see who got signed first, I finally had what seemed
like a complete band.

Why did your first drummer, Jim Kovach, leave the band, and how did you get a contract with Black Dragon Records? Were there any songs that did not make it in "Graceful inheritance"?

Jim had gotten married, and his wife couldn't care less about the band.
He was under pressure to use his education and get a job.  He is now the
Musical Director for a High School in the area.
We never got any serious attention from any labels until Black Dragon.  I
borrowed another $5000 from two friends and we recorded the first half of
"Graceful Inheritance" in the spring of 1985.  When we got interest from
Black Dragon, they gave us another $5000 to finish the record in October
1985.  The responses from "Rock Hard" magazine from the advance tapes was
what caught their attention.  I was managing, financing, writing, promoting,
and essentially creating this band myself.  Aside from Paul, the other
members didn't want to commit to a Partnership Agreement to share
responsibilities.  So, I secured the Trademark and Tradename as sole
proprietor.  My offer to the members to join me in a Partnership Agreement
was left on the table for them to consider anytime they might have wanted to.
But I think they liked the idea of getting the benefits without the
commitments.   All the material written for GI made it onto the record.  The
band dosen't get royalties from any more than 12 songs per album, so by
including 13 we were already giving Black Dragon something for nothing.

Your debut album shows a group with clear influences from the mega groups of that time, but also with strong and unique character. How did you manage to make such a personal sound, and what was the response from the audience and the press?

I think a major reason for the intensity of the first record was that we were on our own.  We were all self-taught musicians, and we didn't confine
ourselves with alot of rules about how to write a song.  I had learned how to
play by jamming to records with either two guitarists or several overdubs, so
I wrote songs that would have as much complexity in their live performance as
I could handle.  Let's face it, if you want to make an impression, you have
to take chances.  We just wanted to make things interesting, for us to play,
and for the audience to watch.  The European response was great, except from
KERRANG!, they hated it.  I guess they thought I was trying to play too much.
I was just trying to display what we could do as a band, in the hopes that a
real manager and record company could direct our efforts beyond that point.
Overall, I believe that "Graceful Inheritance" was one of the best metal
debut albums of 1986 by the reviews I read from Europe.  Obviously, it felt
great to have acceptance and it reinforced my hopes that we were on the right
track.  KERRANG! looked pretty stupid as the only magazine to pan the record.
 

It's claimed that the European tour with Savage Grace became a total catastrophe
for the group because of the finals of the World Soccer Cup that were taking place
at the same time. After that, the group's equipment was stolen. How did these
incidents of bad luck affect the group?

Well, the only catastrophy I remember during the tour was at the show in Munich.  Germany had a game that evening and there was a big-screen television set up for the audience to watch the game inbetween our show andSavage Grace.  We played in front of an excited crowd, and Savage Grace played in front of a depressed crowd because Germany had lost the game.
Europe goes crazy for the World Cup, I don't understand the reason for the
horrible violence that the team nationalism creates between the countries.
The stampedes and fighting are terrible.
Our equipment was stolen the day of our concert in the Paramount Theatre
on New Years Eve 1986.  Derek had left the band to join Savage Grace. 
Our new bassist was Duane Bakke, he was
excellent.  He learned all of the parts off the record perfectly within two
weeks and we played the concert with borrowed equipment.  It was very
depressing to have the guitar I made in High School get stolen, and Michael
Jackson had just joined the group and bought new keyboards that were stolen
also.  The equipment was stolen by a band rehearsing next to us at a
warehouse, I got one of my guitars back a couple of years later, but my
Zebrawood is still missing.  I'd kill to get it back...

Why did your first singer, Paul Davidson, leave the group?

After the New Years show, I arranged for us to rehearse at Triad Studios
in Studio B where we recorded the first record.  Triad had hit rough times,
and studio B was evacuated and no longer being used.  Duane Bakke left the
band in January of 1987 after his father died, so he was replaced with Randy
Nelson.  We recorded "We the People" and "Tomorrow Night" with money from
another investor/shopper I had found, and we were working out "The Fifth
Season".  Paul came to me one day very upset and emotional, he said his voice
was ruined from his recent secret cocaine abuse, and that he just couldn't
sing anymore.  We had a concert scheduled for July 4th, and I had arranged
for a "live" album and concert video with Semaphore records in the
Netherlands.  At the last minute, Semaphore couldn't come up with the $5000
for the record so I borrowed more money for the recording and video.  Now I
needed to find a new singer!!!

How did you get in contact with Michael Jackson and Steve Benito? Did they have
any past in other groups?

I had known Michael from my soundman days, he played in "THEATRE" at the
same time as Geoff Tate was in "MYTH".  I ran sound for them at a concert in
a roller skating rink back in 1982.  When we returned from the European Tour,
Derek left the group, and for a few months there was nothing really
happening.  I was interested in adding keys for more versatility, so instead
of auditioning new bassists right away, I took some time to audition some
keyboardists.  Nathan McCoy, who played keys on "R.I.P" and "Hands of
Destiny", and Michael Jackson.  Michael won the job and we began writing as a
duo during September of 1986.
I had overheard Steve's band "FRENCH KISS" while at Triad studios one
afternoon, they were up from Portland to remix their demo tape.  I recruited
him to join the band and he re-cut the vocals on "We, the People", "Tomorrow
Night", and "Keeper of the Reign" as a demo for a new contract.  I sent the
tapes to L.A. and KNAC raved about this new band (we were still totally
unknown outside of Seattle and Europe).  Within two weeks Derek had returned
and we played the July 4th concert. 
I loaned Steve $400 to move to Seattle, he never paid me back, even after I got him a job...
 

How did you gain a contract with Metal Blade Records? Did they do anything to promote the album?

Metal Blade was approached by Julie Hines on our behalf, she was an old
girlfriend who had always wanted to be our manager, but never proved to have
the talent to manage.  We let her shop us to them, and I began negotiations
with Metal Blade that lasted about 6 months prior to our signing.  She
presented herself as our manager, which she wasn't.  I was still in charge,
as was stated in our contract with Metal Blade/CAPITOL.  I have no idea what
Metal Blade did to promote the album.  On March 10, 1989, I was told by Julie
Hines that I was being replaced.  The album was released in June 1989 without my photo on it. 

I was treated as though I was never in the group, "guitarparts performed by..." was the only mention of me on the record.  I got the
biggest knife-in-the-back I could ever imagine.  In retrospect, they did it
all to escape the debts that we had incurred in my name.  I later won a
lawsuit, but what do you really win once your dreams are stolen...  All the
people who believed in me and helped me start this band and keep it alive are
all without any kind of payment.  My mistake was recruiting the best players,
instead of the best friends.  Julie was getting back at me for getting
married to someone else.  This is just like a bad movie!! Isn't it!!  ha ha
 

In your second album you really made a wide step of progress, and this release
is surely put among the diamonds of progressive metal. What response did
"One small voice" gain from the audience and the press?

I really have no idea how the album was received, I was out of the
picture.  I was told to stay out of the spotlight and pursue the lawsuit.  I
can only assume that the record didn't do very well, Metal Blade dropped the
group in October 1989 when they realized I could win a lawsuit against them
for Breach of Contract and Trademark/Copyright Infringement.  It took me two
years to get into court, and the bandmembers without me never achieved
anything beyond.  They were foolish to hijack the plane when I was the only
one of them who knew how to fly it.  It was all a useless shame.
My feelings about the album direction are much different than yours.  I
was hoping for a very intense album with commercial viability in America.
Unfortunately, Steve's overboard approach to the album's vocals gave the
critics plenty to dislike.  It was called "Queensryche Lite" and generally
regarded as a poor copy of Rage for Order.  There are far too many keyboards,
vocal overdubs, and harmonies to attempt to reproduce "live".  The guitar is
buried in the mix, and, like me or hate me, this music MUST have guitar to
maintain it's drive.  I am very proud of my playing on that record, it's just
too hard to hear underneath all the excess frills and effects.  My basic
track tapes from those sessions are VERY powerful, the finished product is
weak by comparison.  I would love the chance to remix that album!  The fact
that I voiced these concerns during the recording was also a factor in my
expulsion.  The first album set the stage, the second was just too different.
Also, I wrote at least half of that record and got no credit whatsoever.
Some of the strongest material wasn't included because I wrote it...Tomorrow
Night, Questions, Cry for Rome....
 

Who was mainly responsible for the songwriting in this album? Also, who wrote the lyrics?

Michael and I wrote most of the Heir Apparent material for that album,
"Screaming", "AloneAgain" (and Two Hearts) were from Steve's French Kiss
days.
Derek brought "Cacophony of Anger" from his stint with Savage Grace, their
guitarists couldn't play it the way he wanted.  It was an instrumental before
Steve went crazy in the studio with 24 vocal tracks!  Since I wrote 90% of
the first record, I relaxed a little and let them have their say.  I arranged
Sounds of Silence, Crossing the Border, Young Forever, (the Haunting), One
Small Voice.  I wrote the lyrics for We the People and most of The Fifth
Season.  You can read the album credits to get their take on things...it's
pretty much the "Steve Benito Show!"
 

After the release of the album, another round of changes came up. Could you please
define what happened then?

I was replaced by a graduate of the Guitar Institute, a rich German guy
whose dad was an Ambassador somewhere.  His name was Klaus. He was everything
you'd expect from that school of clones, an excellent guitarist, but he
couldn't play the parts right.  I guess my playing is just too unschooled!  I
heard that Ray was kicked out in favor of the old French Kiss drummer, or
maybe he finally saw Steve for real and quit.  I can really only guess,  but
Ray and Derek ended up playing together in the grunge band "Doctor Unknown"
afterwards.  I went to one of their shows and they were scared to death, they
thought I was going to kick their ass, I just said "Hi", and left.  They
never went anywhere.

Are you still in contact with any former members of the band?

Nope, aside from the Doctor Unknown show, I haven't seen any of themsince the Trial in September 1990.   I can't imagine maintaining contact with people who fucked me over so bad, it would be ridiculous.

It's well known that there's unreleased material of the group, and the part of this stuff that I own is really great! What exactly is there that remains
unreleased? Are there any hopes for the official release of this stuff, and
for the re-issue of your albums which are now really nowhere to be found?

I own all the rights to "Graceful Inheritance", I could release that
anytime I chose, with the proper logo and artwork that Black Dragon failed to
use.  The original artwork was done by Matt Bazemore, and it will finally be
seen in it's intended place.  I have several videos and recordings, but I'm
not sure about the legalities of selling them, I would have to research the
matter.  I'm sure the other members, during all line-ups, would be entitled
to a share of the monies.  Just because they fucked me, I am not going to
sell their contributions for my own good.
Maybe the best thing would be to repay all the people who invested their
faith in the band, that would be the right thing to do.  There were two
drummers, two singers, two keyboardists, three bass players, and one
guitarist in HEIR APPARENT.  The band that existed after me was an imposter,
I have one of their demos too.

Why did you keep yourself away from music all these years, and which are your
future directions?

After what I went through it was easy to walk away.  I got screwed by
people I had spent my entire musical life trying to help in a common goal.
All the record companies I've dealt with have lied and cheated me.  Every
place you look someone is making money on your music except you!  It SUCKS
being ripped-off.
All I ever wanted was to earn a living playing music.  To be able to call
myself a professional musician.  Black Dragon never returned our Master
Tapes, THEY ARE MINE!!!
Imagine yourself in the situation I went through 10 years ago, you may
have killed those people for what they did!  Believe me, I considered it.
At least I have been vindicated by the fact that none of them ever amounted
to anything without me.
My next goal is to record new music from the 30 hours of ideas that I've
recorded the past ten years.  I still love playing, and nothing could make me
happier than to make a living playing music.  I've got a good career, so I'll
need to become pretty successful to quit my current job, but you never know.
There are a million guitarists out there better than me, but it all comes down to the song...
 

What did you miss most in all these years of absence from music?

Playing concerts.  There is nothing more exhilerating than getting in
front of an audience that actually knows your music.  It's better than any
drug, and almost as good as sex!

Seattle had a great power metal scene (Queensryche, Heir Apparent, Sanctuary,
Metal Church etc) in the '80s. This scene was suddendly replaced by a large
number of groups that played grunge/alternative. What is your opinion on grunge,
and which are your memories from these days of changes?

The 80's were fun years in music.  Although I like alot of the
Alternative/Grunge from the last decade, it is generally very depressing in
it's mood.
Our first show with Steve had Diamond Lie (before they changed their name to
Alice In Chains) opening up for us.  The Grunge scene was created by
Hollywood, to martyr Andrew Wood and promote the movie "Singles".  Seattle
was full of young pissed-off musicians who knew it was too hard to compete
with Queensryche. Progressive Metal takes alot of hard work to play, and
there was an underground revolt against anything "intellectual" or requiring
technique to perform.  I saw that trend, and that is why I wanted the second
album to have more balls and less frills.
We might have held our own had we stayed together, there was alot of
talent there.  I told them that if the second record did okay, that would be
great, but I didn't expect it to.  I told them that after this record falls
on its' face we were going back to my way.  They never gave me, or
themselves, the chance.
The record companies in L.A. were frantic to sign anyone with a guitar and
long hair during the onset of Grunge.  It was crazy.  Soundgarden has written
lyrics about it, they knew what was happening and why.  We all knew we were
the new music mecca for grunge, and that we as a city were being exploited.
Nobody cared to stop it though, they just rode the gravy train as long as
they could.  Some great music came out of it, and some great bands.  But the
darker side of the heroin requirement took it's toll, even though it added to
the mystique.  We were openly anti-drug, so we were uncool.
 

Which are your influences, and who are the artists that led you on playing music?

My influences were Hendrix and Page, Santana, David Gilmour, and Toni
Iommi.  If I had to describe my style, I'd say "Controlled Flailing"!  About
the time I felt ready to write my own music, Iron Maiden was HUGE with Number
of the Beast.  After meeting Kim Harris it seemed the appropriate thing to do
was Metal, so I tried to fit the mold the best way I could.  I had done
covers of Rainbow, Deep Purple, Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Scorpions with
Paul in RENEGADE, and all the local metal musicians were doing the same.
That's why we sound similar, we never copied Queensryche, we copied the same
bands as Queensryche!  I went over to Geoff's house one day to ask him if he
was interested in forming a band, he was tired of the label rejections in
MYTH, he was screaming to Maiden, matching Dickenson note-for-note.  He asked
me to make him a tape and not long thereafter he was off and running when
Queensryche got interest.  Anyway, those are my influences, and everyone
else's!

"One small voice" was a step of evolution that make many fans feel strange,
and led many people on rejecting this album. Do you think that the artist should
ignore the demands of the fans and follow only his mood and will, or should he try 
to satisfy them?

From a practical standpoint, you have to have acceptance to make a
living.  Unless you are rich anyway, and music is just a hobby.  No artist
becomes sucessful without having an audience, if you have to bend your ideals
to get the audience, you might be able to afford to take them down your road
later.  But you  need a certain degree of success to call your own shots.
With "One Small Voice", the album never lived up to it's potential because of
the way it was mixed and overproduced.  Any artist can follow his own will,
sometimes it coincides with the audience, sometimes it dosen't.  If you come
from a dream in a basement by borrowing money from all your family and
friends and you ever hope to get anywhere you'd better please the audience!
And you'd better know there is an audience for what you're doing.  I knew we
had an audience for "Graceful...", with "One Small Voice" I was pretty sure
we didn't.
 

Now, after all these years, which are the most pleasant memories you have from the group's route in time?

The European Tour is one of my best memories!  We had played a handful
of small shows in Seattle in front of people that didn't know the music, or a
room full of other musicians standing there with their arms crossed saying
"impress me".  It was fantastic to play to audiences that knew the lyrics,
the songs, everything.  That was the first time we ever saw Slam-Dancing or a
mosh pit.  That was unknown in Seattle! 

What do you think on today's progressive metal scene? How do you feel when you see groups similar to Heir Apparent that finally gained wider success? Do you think
you were able, under different conditions, to do it, too?

I don't know if there is a Metal Scene in America, Dream Theater is all
that comes to mind.  I must tell you, the first time I heard "Images and
Words" I cried.
That is a beautiful album, it still gets me when I hear it.
We accomplished quite a bit considering we had no outside management, no
major label budget, just me hustling everything I could stir up.  I did it
all, that's why they couldn't go on without me.  They replaced a guitarist,
but they never found the pilot, the manager, the finacier, the promoter, or
the babysitter to take my place.  And for some reason nobody saw the
potential in their band as much as they saw in mine.  The whole episode is a
shame, I never got a real reason for their actions, so my conclusions are the
best I can rationalize.

Thanks John, keep the candle burning!